New car shopping

[kmusser]

My somewhat contradictory criteria:

Size should be a small sedan (as small as possible while still holding 4 people comfortably and have enough storage that I can use it for camping trips).

It should be as environmentally friendly as possible – I won’t consider anything getting less than 35 mpg on the highway.

It should be fun to drive, both in the city, and during long-distance road trips.

It should be reasonably priced – limit is approx. $25,000, obviously the cheaper the better. I get a significant discount on Fords and other Ford owned brands.

It should be reliable – the main reason I’m looking at new vs. old.


The leading contenders so far:

Toyota Prius the obvious choice on environmental factors, though it’s near the upper end of my price range. Probably would win on reliability too. Unfortunately it’s not available until the fall and I’m not sure I want to wait that long.

Ford Focus and Mazda 3, either of which could be had for about ½ the price of a Prius and would be available immediately. Focus also has super-low emissions.

VW Jetta, included because I want to compare a diesel – mpg are almost as good as the Prius and it could be converted to run on vegetable oil, which would just be cool.

I chose these cars based on reviews from http://www.edmunds.com/ and http://www.autoweb.com/ - all rave reviews from both sites. I plan to go out for test drives in all of these in the next couple of weeks. Driving will probably be the deciding factor. I’m not going to buy something I don’t like driving.

So comments from the peanut gallery? Any opinions on these cars? Any other cars I’m really missing out on that I should be including in here?

One of the obvious contenders, the Honda Civic, is not included because I already know what it’s like to drive it and I’d like something better (or at least the same, in which case the Ford or Mazda would win on price).

Comments

[electricsoup.livejournal.com]

Honda's about to come out with an accord hybrid, which may be better than the civic.

I get like 550/tank with my diesel bug, with it's 12.5 gallon tank. That's without running the ac though. I'm not sure if the Jetta will get the same. But I do love my VW :)

Good luck! :)

[sirjames.livejournal.com]

Consider the Toyota Matrix. Neat car.

*waves*

[jadine.livejournal.com]

If you're looking at new cars primarily for reliability, you might consider a certified used car that's 1 to 2 years old.

Personally, I liked driving the Civic hybrid. But then, the other low-powered cars I've driven significantly were Ford Escorts and Saturns, so that's really what I'm comparing it to. My own car needs a little more power, to get up the hills around here.

The one thing that annoys me on the hybrids is the continuously variable transmission. You don't get the benefits of either a manual or automatic.

[sleepingwolf.livejournal.com]

I looked at the Focus wagon with the 2.3L engine when I was looking for a new car. Only certain Focus engines (the 2.3L I believe) are truly super-low emissions. I felt the Focus was fun to drive, but I was annoyed that the wagon with cruise control (a must-have for me) did not offer traction control due to quirks in Ford's 2004 lineup. It was my second-choice car. (I wound up selecting the V6 Saturn L300-2 Wagon given the mountainous region of Pennsylvania I live in.) The Focus did get Consumer Reports' small car recommendation this past year.

The Toyota Matrix (mentioned above) and the Pontiac are essentially identical. I found their engines somewhat underpowered for my needs (do note the AWD version is lower-powered than the front wheel drive version). Still, their gas mileage is rather good. They aren't sedans, though, they are "crossover" vehicles somewhere between small SUVs and tall station wagons. Still, they are cheaper than the Focus and do have some intriguing features and options (dashboard 125VAC, available DVD-based navigation systems, chair-like seating).

Check the legality of running on vegetable oil before you count that as a feature for the Jetta. I don't know about our side of the pond, but I recall hearing a lot about doing so in England being illegal.

You might find the entries I made regarding my car hunt (http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=sleepingwolf&keyword=Car+Hunt&filter=all) of some use, though our criteria differed (and I made an adjustment to my gas mileage requirements part-way through).

[kmusser]

Thanks, I found your car hunt entries useful. For me the Focus will be cheaper than a Matrix due to my discount. Will defintely eye a Corolla or Matrix if I find I don't like the Focus or Mazda.

[kbuxton.livejournal.com]

I quite like my 2003 Protege5. Personally I think it looks a lot better than the 3, but I haven't driven a 3. The backseat is comfortable. I'm getting good gas mileage around town, but don't know for sure what the highway mileage is. (Not as good as a hybrid of course though)

[ilostonjeopardy.livejournal.com]

Todd got killer mileage with his diesel Jetta, and the trunk is freaking HUGE. I think you'd like it. Plus, the conversion to veggie oil would be way cool.

[samurailuci.livejournal.com]

are you talking about the civic hybrid when you say the civic is not an option?

and when considering running on veggie oil, note that the veggie oil still has to be grown as veggies and then processed and refined into usable oil...  which far outweighs any potential environmental benefits from burning the stuff. (something the corn-producing states would like people to ignore about ethanol, but i digress)  the only way one gets remotely ecologically-friendly in burning it is to use 'used' oil - and beware that running such waste through your engine will at best leave your car smelling like French Fries.  also note that diesel has higher emissions from the vehicle; the ecological gains are that it's not as highly processed as gasoline, so while point-source pollution goes down, user-end emissions go up, which may be more of a factor if you live/commute in an already-polluted area.

but i have a cold, and i took cold medicine, so i'm kinda loopy right now.  yeah.  let's hope i'm more helpful than...  whatever the opposite of helpful is.

[kmusser]

While it still has to be refined, veggie oil is renewable while gasoline is not, a rather significant difference. I did note the high emissions though, which is a definite minus - a point in favor of the Focus.

[rdhdsnippet.livejournal.com]

If you're considering a Jetta, also consider a Golf. It's virtually the same car (Jetta, Pasat and Golf are all the same chassis), but the hatch makes storage capacity enormous. You would not believe the things I've hauled in my Golf.

Upside to a VW: it is the most fun to drive car I have ever driven in my life. Downside to a VW: repairs tend to be more expensive than say, a GM car.

FWIW: another car into the ring...

[webqatch.livejournal.com]

I didn't see any mention of it, but I know of a car that fits all of your parameters...

The Nissan Sentra Yes, I'm biased... after all, I'm on my second one!

The first one survived me for 10 years and 180K miles on a VERY occassional maintainance cycle (you know, oil changes every 10-15K or so... yeah, I was young & stupid). That one I bought "new" in 1990 and drove it for nearly the entire 180K miles.

The second I bought "used" about 3.5 years ago with 42K on it. It's now got 110K and is still going strong, though I've been a *little* better about oil changes & such (okay, so now I'm older and errr... yeah).

Both cars have been 5-speed manual transmissions and I typically get 28-30MPG city and 35-40 on the open road.

As for price, I paid ~$10K for each one... the '91 in 11/90 and the '97 in '00.